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  • I just wondered if anyone else noticed they very distinct similarities between the two, and if anyone else thought the overall story may have been inspired by it.

    The entire point of The Divine Comedy was that Dante had lost his way and must find redemption by traversing the nine circles of hell and atoning for his sins, and thereby find his salvation. For most of this journey, he is accompanied by Virgil, who says he can help guide him, but the rest he must do himself, which to me, was strikingly similar to one of the phonecalls from The Enginner to Mandus.

    The further down Oswald goes into the machine seems to have a distinct connection with the different sins and atrocities he's committed, and there's effetively nine different levels beneath the surface layer, ie. the nine circles of hell. It also seems the further and further he goes, the more foul and terrible things he's done come to the surface, and he therefore begins to remember and start on the path of atonement.

    I also noticed that in one of the notes they speak of the center of the earth, which in the Divine Comedy is the greatest distance one can travel from God, and the center of that center is the bottom of Hell. You find several notes discussing how the bottom of the machine is supposed to be kept ice cold and how it is inevitiably the start and the end of the whole process, and how the final product ends up there, to be kept frozen, and I can't help but notice the similarities between that and this from Dante's Inferno,

    "To his dark center drain all the waters of the earth, bearing the filthy sediment of all sin and uncleanliness. Satan's six wings beat madly in his efforts to escape from that foul lake but they succed only in whipping up a freezing gale that turns all to ice, fixing him ever more securely in the bottom ice-tray. From the top of Purgatory, moreover, there flow down to him the waters of Lethe, in which the finally purified souls bathe and are washed clean of every memory of sin. That memory, too, is frozen into the filthy ice about Satan. Thus that center is the center of all weight, of all sin, of all darkness and of all cold."

    I've read the wiki and plot analysis on AMFP, and I realise that Oswald's soul fractured, but I personally believe that body in the tube you find is actually Mandus' own body, and being that he has become the machine, the good in him also has the ability to effect the machine, and shut down what he could, but I don't think Mandus is still "alive" in the sense that he's actually walking around in the game. I think it was Oswald's purgatory, and like Dante, he is traversing his own hell and atoning for his sins, and at the end I simply think he found redemption and he accepted his sins and rejoined the other half of his soul and returned to his body, and shut the system down. The one thing that doesn't make any sense, especially since he essentially said he put himself in the machine, and there's all those weird notes and annotations about the wires going into his ears and about him essentially laying there grasping at the wires about him when you find the note going on about redeeming himself because he has realized his evil, and if it would be possible to change, why would he need a random body? It's never explained and as far as I can tell the game has no plot holes, so I'm fairly certain that is Mandus himself, not simply a representation of the Engineer, whatever that's supposed to mean.

     

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    • Your theory is well explained, but please remember: this is Amnesia, not Devil May Cry. Sorry :)

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    • I'm a bit confused with the last chunk of your post:

      "The one thing that doesn't make any sense, especially since he essentially said he put himself in the machine, and there's all those weird notes and annotations about the wires going into his ears and about him essentially laying there grasping at the wires about him when you find the note going on about redeeming himself because he has realized his evil, and if it would be possible to change, why would he need a random body? It's never explained and as far as I can tell the game has no plot holes, so I'm fairly certain that is Mandus himself, not simply a representation of the Engineer, whatever that's supposed to mean."

      The first thing I thought of when I saw the person in the tube was also Oswald (Maybe Lily, but that thought was fleeting). I definitely think it's possible your physical body is in that tube, and that the game represents more of a 'struggle of wills' between the two halves of your soul within the machine. 

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    • Yeah, that's what I was trying to say, lol. My thoughts got a little bit jumbled. But on this wiki when I read the plot, it said something like that was supposed to be the physical manifestation of the engineer or whatever, which didn't make much sense to me. Why would the machine need a random body? And the engineer is clearly just the darker half of Oswald, so I don't get why the other half of his soul would need just some random body, and it clearly said that he gave the machine his blood to give it sentience, and although it doesn't directly say he put himself in the machine, I think that's what it was supposed to be. If you really think about it, it's the only thing that makes sense, and I think, being that he's researching how to bring the dead back and the various points towards the end of the game where he teleports from place to place, like the Tesla pig (and some of the others seemed to have this ability as well due to their properties) I think he was essentially a ghost in the machine and the entire game was basically a power struggle and he himself going through the machinery he had control of, which is why the engineer had asked for his help to begin with, and he was able to shut down more and more of the machine as he came to terms with everything, and then obviously at the end merge their two souls by taking his place there. I also noticed throughout the game, there's small hints about him actually becoming the machine in some of the loading screen text.

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    • VenT-rexBrennenburg wrote:
      Your theory is well explained, but please remember: this is Amnesia, not Devil May Cry. Sorry :)

      I'm sorry, is this a joke? Your statement as a whole is one of the dumbest things I think I've ever read on the internet, and is in and of itself a complete contradiction, considering the original Amnesia was heavily inspired by Dante's Inferno. Dante's Inferno or "The Divine Comedy" is an epic written by Dante Alighieri in the 1300s; DMC is very loosely based off it, but its literally a mockery of one of literature's greatest stories. So, maybe you should take your own advice: Remember, this is Amnesia, not Devil May Cry. :) (and by that I mean the people who wrote Amnesia are actually well-read and extremely literate, and have more than once paid homage to The Inferno, instead of butchering it like Hideki Kamiya. Maybe you should look at things other than video games once in a while, before you make yourself look like an ass by pretending you know what you're talking about.)

      Sorry! :)

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    • I personally thought that the body inside might have been Daniel, considering how Daniel's cocept art and the body look INCREDIbley alike. 

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    • Wow, this... escalated quickly.

      Back to the original topic, I like the idea of the OP a lot. There are definitely some parallels, and I'll have to keep a look out on the next playthrough.

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    • VenT-rexBrennenburg wrote:
      Your theory is well explained, but please remember: this is Amnesia, not Devil May Cry. Sorry :)

      Wrong Dante, maybe? This one's the Italian author, DMC's is a crazy white-haired swordsman in a trench coat. Although either doing the other's job for a day would be priceless.

      On topic, it's a definite possibility Machine for Pigs is somewhat based on the Divine Comedy. Even though Dante basically wrote it to piss off the church it's still a pretty influential document, hence the "Word of Dante" trope. Florence keeps trying to reclaim his corpse. Even built him a tomb for if they ever do get him back.

      I guess I'm saying, yes, probably.

      As for Mandus being in the tube, the Orbs certainly have some amount of wierdness in terms of supernatural phenomena, and Justine proved that the base universe is capable of similarly wierd stuff even without the dread magicks. Especially if Mandus actually merged with the machine, since most of A Machine for Pigs takes place either where Mandus was at some point in the past (therefore might remember) and in the machine itself. So places he'd know what they look like. Soul-fracturing and out-of-body experiences aren't mutually exclusive, so the Engineer may well also exist in the machine in a technically separate state. Like if Mr. House partitioned off half his control and got amnesia, he'd probably spend the rest of his life in eternal stalemate with this random virus that acts exactly like he does. That'd also justify the "Amnesia" part of the name, since Mandus would have remembered quite a bit of plot otherwise.

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